The Oberon interview is a transcript of a conversation that occurred between pseudonymous boy-lover and FCC Petersburg Medium prisoner Oberon and Nathan Larson in early 2012. Many of the interview questions were geared toward obtaining demographic information in order to help determine whether pedophiles tend to share certain characteristics in common.
Larson: When and where you and your immediate family members born?
Oberon: My family while I was child lived in Washington state and California. My Dad was from Canada and California. My mom Michigan and Washington state. All my siblings were born in Washington state.
Larson: What countries did your ancestors hail from? What were their ethnicities?
Oberon: I'm a mutt. France, England, Blackfoot, Scotland, Canadian. Well my Great grandmother was born Montana or South Canada as she was Native American. My GGG Grandfather came to America to get away from English politics. He was the Earl of Darbie and put a D in his name for Damm the King Standly.
Larson: What religious, philosophical and political beliefs did you and your family members have?
Oberon: Most of what you ask cannot be summed up in a quick answer and is something that should come out in other questions but Religion I am Pagan with baptist background. For the most part my mother the only family member I'm truly close to is American Baptist for the most part.
Larson: What have been your and your family members' occupations?
Oberon: My sister [illegible]. My mother has been a welfare worker and computer analyst. Father mechanic. Me retail and social coordinator and of course imprisoned advocate.
Larson: What kind of parenting styles did your parents have?
Oberon: Father authoritative. Mother passive.
Larson: What were your and your family members' hobbies and interests?
Oberon: We had horses and lived out in the country most of my childhood. Parents and I were into sci fi with an interest in Science. Not my siblings too much. I'm the reader like my parents. I'm more into fantasy than anyone else although my father read a little. My father and brother liked fooling around with Cars. My sister and mother are into hobby craft projects. I was really into historical reenactment and D&D. As well as youth. (I think you can call it a hobby of mine.)
Larson: What level of education did you and your family members have? What were your and their majors and where you and they go to school?
Oberon: My father a master mechanic. He has gone to trade school but he was a big reader and was self-taught in other areas, mainly science. Mother computer science as well as chemistry. I am the only other one who went to college. 2½ years psychology. Brothers training vocational in the Army and a company like Brown & Root.
Larson: Please describe the evolution of your philosophical, religious and political beliefs. What were major milestones in these intellectual journeys for you, and what prompted these changes? What experiences, books, people, etc. have been major influences on you and how?
Oberon: Again too broad. Let's see if we have better questions to get to the point better.
Larson: What did you like and dislike about the different occupations you worked at?
Oberon: Many of my social work was with youth. My work for Costco paid good so I could play more when I was not working. I have worked with after school programs, youth homes, youth camps, junior high schools as well as coached. I think you can see a pattern. No need to go into it now.
Larson: Have you been married? When? What's the current status of that marriage?
Oberon: Never been married. Maybe was close twice. I'm still unmarried.
Larson: Do you have kids? What are their ages and genders?
Okay, stupid question Sorry, I thought you asked do I like kids. I lived with a woman for five years. Her younger son was like a stepson. He is on a couple of my tax returns. He is like 24 now. I still think of him and hope he is doing okay.
Larson: (a) What have been your favorite areas to live in and why? (b) What have been less pleasant places to live and why?
Oberon: (a) Santa Barbara and Lompoc, California. I love the beaches and have a lot of good memories about the area. The weather was great most of the time to around to do physical activities most of the time I did with youth (boys).
(b) Most no all of the prison yards I would have to say I hate the most all the places I've lived. But really I can't say too much bad things about the places I lived in while I was on the outside. I always made the best of where I was or moved on. The worst housing was when I lived with Rigo (rented a room) and with Neva, a girlfriend. Four of us went in to be roommates. Didn't really work out but I did not live in either place for very long.
Larson: Describe the evolution of your sexuality. What changes occurred over the years? What people, experiences, information, etc. did you encounter that influenced its development and evolution, and what and how did it have that influence?
Oberon: Okay a real question. I look back and find I can see little glimpses of who I am in the boy even before I realized what my sexuality is. I can remember in kindergarten helping another boy getting his zipper unstuck and liking my face right in his crotch. I can remember playing with Jeffery and Jeffery's butt at seven although at the time I was not thinking sexually. Jeffery was like two years younger. In second grade there was Peggy and Tommy no playing around but Peggy was my girlfriend but I spent most of my time with Tommy. There was another girl in third grade. Ted really became my best friend. At ten I fooled around with Debbie my first real sexual type encounter. I began thinking about sex the year before my thoughts were for other boys and girls. Myself and Ted fooled around a little when I was eleven which I think I enjoyed more than Debbie. My tenth year I also wondered about a fifth grade teacher, Mr. McLaughlin. He was known for liking boys. The whole sex stuff was a mystery something I wanted to know more about but at the same time afraid of (how stupid). It was an adult thing that kids played around at and got in trouble if they got caught. The summer of my tenth year my folks separated. Although at first I lived with my mother I ended up going back and living with my dad. The eleventh year he was staying with his girlfriend (my future stepmother) up the street and I spent most of the nights at the old house. I found my dad's novels and adult mags and even used them to entice another boy into fooling around. He was three years younger. Oh, I was too chicken to approach Mr. McLaughlin when I was 10. By the time I was 12 with only a handful of youthful experimental encounters mainly with boys I found another adult (male) who I believe would play around with me. Ralph was in his forties and when I suggested it should be okay for kids to do sexual stuff he asked what I thought of doing things with others guys or boys. When I told him it didn't matter that I did a couple of things already with another boy he ended up asking if I wanted to play around with him if that was why I brought up the subject. I remember sounding all "Oh really if you wanted to sure it would be okay."
Ralph pretty much lived across the street from my soon-to-be stepmother's house. The first time he was a little timid I think, testing the waters. By the third time I came over alone and he got me in his trailer or the storage area he was the more dominant one. One reason was he was the adult and more experienced. After I was more comfortable with the whole sex thing it just became our pattern. It was my choice to come over by myself but once I did he was in control more or less. Ralph and I had sex for about two years. He kind of lost interest in me as I got older. Also he ended up getting a girlfriend with three younger boys, like 6 to 10. Almost as soon as they moved out there was another girlfriend, this time with a girl about 11 and three boys 10, 7, or 8, and one about 4. Ralph did all the kids. I was very aware of what was going on with both groups of kids. He never stepped over a line I was not okay with with me. He was on the dominant side with me. He was on the authoritize and even the abusive side with them. Ralph ended up going to prison for like eight years over the second group of kids when I was 15. It was probably a good thing for me that I was way too old for Ralph by the second group of kids and Ralph was not into sharing which was okay because I had other things going on like a 12-year-old boyfriend when I was 15, as well as a girlfriend although we really did not do much more than hang out at school go on a couple dates (the girlfriend). When I was 13 (almost 14) I had an encounter with Ted's mother. It was only once and a little strange because of all the times I spend at Ted's house when I was younger. Both Lucey and I were morning people so we used to talk a lot when I spent the night while the rest of her family slept in.
I really did not think of myself as gay until I was fourteen even though most of my sexual type activities were leaning towards gaydom. I looked at the girlie magazines and read my dad's sex books (novels) which were mainly hetero. I found myself noticing the areas of the novels or Penthouse letters that crossed over to the gay or other areas and found them interesting although most of straight. When I was eleven I also remember finding my mom's Playgirl and enjoying the pictures in it but it was not until I was 14 that it hit me I was not just being horny but I was different than most of my friends and by the time I was 16 I was noticing another trend. I liked younger guys although again it was nothing I really acknowledged about myself until I was 18. I was working my first real job, Clearwater Ranch, a children's home. Talk about letting the fox into the henhouse except I was not the only fox. The thing was I stopped thinking of myself as just another kid. Really I moved out of my dad's house when I was 16 almost 17 and was fooling around with kids a lot younger than myself, 14 to 6, and could have gone to prison for much of it even as a teenager.
Knowing I was different and not just gay different I became interested in psychology to figure some of it out. There was no way I was going to talk to anyone about it at least someone I did not trust. I ended up talking to Mr. McLaughlin when I was 18 before I went off to work at "CWR." I had a good cry over being gay when I was 14. The next morning it was like "Okay, I'm gay, so what" and went on. When it hit me I was pedo I didn't have much of a reaction except "Okay I need to be careful." I even said "No more" which lasted all of about three months. When Atlas crawled into bed with me I was 18. He was 11 almost 12.
Okay, I'm rambling and saying more than needs to be said. Most of my understanding of my sexuality I understood by age 20. It may have been refined but many of my sexual beliefs were pretty much there in my early 20s. Ralph helped formed my ideas not by what he told but that I had a relationship with an adult. Although he may have been too demanding with his girlfriends' kids he was not with me. For the most part I see him as an okay guy where I was concerned. My human sexuality class in college opened my eyes to other cultures. My folks, all of three with Mr. McLaughlin when I was 18 and 19, had a little influence. There was also talking with the youths and seeing how the system worked for children's homes and group homes.
The other big influence was the Internet. Not so much the pictures and vids but the fact I could talk to others who felt the same way to see I was not so unique. To see or feel I was not some kind of Monster. It also opened up more material to read. Most of my understanding and forming ideas started with how I felt but with self-evaluations and listening to others and using logic I have refined my beliefs.
Larson: What organizations have you been part of? Which do you still support and why, and which you not support support and why?
Oberon: The only organization I have been officially part of is AYSO (American Youth Soccer Organization), SCA (a historical reenactment organization). I presently receive letters/Newsletters from an underground pedo group which is as I understand is NAMBLA light. Do I support NAMBLA? Yes. I will support any group that has the right to make choices as a part of their purpose either directly or indirectly. On the flip side any group that seeks to control other people's free will I will oppose. This is within reason. "Nukes for every household" I might balk at a little. I'm not wild about United Way. They raise a lot of money for groups I like but they take advantage of those groups and the people who donate because they take more than their fair share.
Larson: How did people (e.g. friends and family) react when they found out you were gay? Have their opinions changed since then? How and why?
Oberon: I am pretty straight acting so many people did not question my sexuality. Also I'm actually bisexual with a preference for guys. On the scale of gay being 1 and straight 10, I'm a 3. My mom knows I like guys also and boys but really ignores it. My dad when he found gay videos was "You're my son and I don't really care." Me being gay/Bi really was no big issue except with Jackie on the outside. I told Jackie early in our relationship but she thought it was a phase I went through in high school. It became an issue after she snooped through my house and found a sex toy.
I was surprised how many people supported me after my arrest for pedo actions. Most of them were young, in their twenties and after three years drifted away busy with their own lives. How they think of me I don't know. The only person who I'm still in contact with after 8 years is my mom.
Larson: After your arrest, did you make any attempt to defend the behavior and actions that led to your arrest? If so, how, and what was the outcome?
Oberon: I am not sure what you mean by "defend." I was getting ready to make a legal defense although the best thing legally was to keep one's mouth shut and make them prove what wrong I did. I took my case to trial. I may have felt I fucked up and was ashamed of what they found out but that shame did not last long. I still did not yell from the rooftops how I really felt. If one is not ready to listen they will not hear what you have to say. I have always defended my belief and my actions were based on my beliefs. There is a time and place to open one's mouth.
Larson: What reactions did people have when they found out about your pedophilic tendencies and actions? Have they revised their opinions since then? How and why?
Oberon: I answered this one two questions ago.
Larson: What can you tell me about your pedophilic relationships? Are there some important insights that people can glean from hearing some anecdotes that you care to share?
Oberon: There are things I think people could glean from my experiences just as I have gleaned things from talking with other people. It goes back to are they ready to listen. There are negative and positive spins people put on things like my relationship with Ralph (see four questions ago). Some would say that Ralph messed me up; that I'm acting out some drama I'm stuck in because of what he did. Listen to what I said, it sounds good but very little of it has what the experience did to me how it messed me up so I was stuck in some kind of loop. The point is I went looking for the experience and because I had it, my view of the world is larger than others. I am aware of all or more of the possibilities one can experience. The relationship with Ralph opened my eyes, not clouded them. I can be a passionate guy when making my point, especially when I feel I'm right but every little bit of emotion is used to form my point of beliefs. "Just because" is a bad premise to base a conclusion on. Because of something that happened when I was 15 I believed young boys were not really sexual beings; that sex was too confusing for them and it was better to mess around with older boys. Two, actually three boys changed my mind about that when I was 17 and there have been a couple other young boys or (boys when they were young) that continued to destroy this idea that young boys are not really sexual beings. Not all young boys are ready to be involved in sex, but others are.
Larson: What popular misconceptions about homosexuality and pedophilia would you like to correct?
Oberon: The biggest misconception I would change is that adult/child relationships are not always harmful. In fact if one removes the social backlash there is very little harmful relationships also a fair amount of those relationships could be viewed as beneficial to the youth. The other misconceptions are "The youths are not ready for a sexual relationship or are not sexual beings." Also that both pedophilia and homosexuality are a natural part of the human race. Both were practiced long before they were given labels and that both are not uncommon and would be more common without the social disapproval they have been given.
Larson: How have the younger partners in your pedophilic relationships been affected by social conditioning and the criminal justice and counseling and treatment systems? What are your thoughts on these institutions and their impact?
Oberon: When I was younger (young adult) I worked for a children's home and group homes that gave me more of an insight to social conditioning. Also how the justice system and counseling play a role in said conditioning. The bigger social conditioning is the propaganda dished out by government ads on T.V. in movies, books, and T.V. shows as well as by governmental systems, like the public school system. The amazing thing is with all this propaganda there are still youths who seek out sexual contact with adults. After they have eye-opening experiments or experience they ignore or question things they are told. Sometimes a few have waffled back and forth on if they wanted to continue playing around but in the end they were more than willing partners. Largely I think the counseling programs should be seen for what are: brainwashing to create social conformity for a world view pushed by a minority. The Justice system needs to be revamped so it only deals with issues of real har, it is cautious of interfering in private matters and questions if the law it is asked to enforce is morality-based or protection-based. (Removal of all morality-based laws) Until then, both systems are an injustice of a man's right to be free of state-sponsored mind control.
Larson: Do you think you made the right decision in engaging in pedophilic relationships? Was the reward worth the risk? (I do not mean was it worth the consequences you actually received, e.g. going to prison. I mean was it worth the risk that you ran of going to prison.) What would you do differently if you had it to do over?
Oberon: What you're asking is to do it all over again, would I not engage in my behavior, knowing I would be arrested for it. The simple answer would be yes. Would I have done things differently, yes. Although I was punished for what the system believed I did with someone, I was not found guilty of anything I did physically with someone. The things I would do differently was to prepare my friends better for what might happen as well as be more careful with what I was looking at on the computer. In the end I thought the government was not interested in a small fry as far as the downloads. If I got caught in the state I was only looking at one year. I was unaware of the punishment in the feds or that they had a law governing what I was doing in my living room. I have good memories and I know I did not cause any actual harm so I have no regrets for what I have done. Do I think it's unfair? Yes.
Larson: What plans of yours were interrupted by your arrest?
Oberon: The biggest plan was I was investigating leaving the country. I I began to realize how down on my beliefs this country was. For the most part I was just living my life. I had things I wanted to do but the truth was I was doing very little towards doing anything but living month to month. One of the things I wanted to do is write a book, fiction and non-fiction. I really have not done much along that line and here in prison I should find time to do it. I still have over four years and I'm in an ideal cell situation for the first time in six years.
Larson: What are your plans now?
Oberon: Still to leave the country, finish learning Spanish, I want to set up a web site and be an advocate for adult/child relations. I still would like to write a couple of books. The website idea I might share at another time.
Larson: What are your views on pedophilic incest?
Oberon: Already gave you an eight-page essay on this matter [see final question of this interview]. Sadly I'm not sure I covered everything.
Larson: What are your views on incest in general?
Oberon: Pretty much the same as Pedo incest. Both of them are covered in the eight-page essays.
Larson: What are your views on child pornography production, distribution, possession and viewing? What do you think of the distribution, possession, and viewing of child pornography created without the consent of the child to the sex or the filming? Is it unethical and should it be criminalized? Why or why not?
Oberon: (a) At one time this was legal in the majority of the states in the U.S. I even talk to someone who was a youth at the time it was legal (in the 70s) and was part of the industry. I think it should be legal. By making it illegal you increase the negative aspects of child pornography. You make it legal it stays safer for those involved and it's easier to identify those that do not wish to be involved. I have talked to four people involved in making videos (junior porn stars). All of them said was no big deal. One of them (not a sex offender as far as I know) thought it was cool I might have seen two videos he was in when he was eight. Unless someone does a classy job there is no real money in it anymore with the boom of computers and the Internet so it will continue to be government intrusion into private lives.
(b) The compromise is the con-consensual sex should be criminalized, not the filming of it. As far as the youth not knowing his/her sex act is being filmed, it may be unethical but not illegal. Criminalizing the filming of any act is like criminalizing the writing of any act. Film like "the word" is information. One should not make information illegal. Is the filming of adult rape illegal, No. Is the filming of adult sexual acts illegal without one of the people's knowledge, not in most states. There are acts that are truly harmful that should be criminal. There are a lot more acts that are just in bad taste. If there is a true issue let is come out in civil court not criminal court.
Larson: What are appropriate criteria for basing criminal penalties and sentences on?
Oberon: Our original criminal concepts were based on corpus delicti, "body of the crime." Crime should have criminality done on purpose and real injury to somebody not hypothetical injury and not to a fictitious entity (i.e. society). We need to go back to this concept and sentencing should be more consistent — 10 to 12 years not 5 to 15. And it should stay the same no matter how many times the crime is committed (each time a person steals bread, no matter if it's his first or fifth would be the same.) The only "life sentence" (2o or more years) should be for taking a life. There should be no consensual crimes and no one should go to prison for a consensual crime at the very least.
Larson: What principles should be applied in deciding whether behavior is ethical?
Oberon: The idea of ethical should be left to the business world. Basically if something is in bad taste, bad form or is unfair without harm to someone, it's unethical. Everything else is open. If it involves true harm it's open for civil or criminal court. (Of course someone may find something in bad taste where others don't.
Larson: What principles should be applied in deciding whether behavior should be criminalized?
Oberon: Real injury! A real person injured.
Larson: What parenting styles do you think are best for raising happy children equipped to lead productive lives that benefit society? Or does it differ from parent to parent, child to child, family to family, culture to culture, etc.?
Oberon: One of the problems with this question is it assumes one size/style fits all. I don't believe it does. Ideally a parent gives the child enough room to explore and express himself to learn things by doing and encourages the youth to try different things, but still remains the parent. I don't remember all the parenting styles. Passive and authoritative I believe are the two extremes. The best place is in the center. Somewhere again some children will do better with a parent to the Authoritative side of center. Others will do better with parents more passive.
Ideally I believe in the village style. A group of the community or the whole town if it is small enough and like-minded. Think of a commune — like-minded people living together. Anyone in the community (commune) teaching, praising, punishing, and nurturing the youth. This is the type of social experiment I would like to do.
You used a statement I had a problem with: "lead productive lives that benefit society." One should lead a productive life that best benefits himself. Society should be in place to benefit the person. By being productive it helps society but do not allow society, a fictitious entity, to become more important than individuals or a group of individuals within the large group we call Society. It is my thinking that Free individuals create a better society than those who are constrained by Society or are forced to conform to society. Unconstrained people are free thinkers and freedom of thought makes a better and more productive society. Also, freedom of non-harmful action leads to freedom of thought. In order to control behavior a society needs to control or restrict thought. The only behavior that should be controlled is that which is truly injurious.
Larson: What are your favorite books and authors and why?
Oberon: I enjoy many different books and authors in different fields. Fantasy and sci-fi I enjoy because it gives a person a chance to express how things could be different. These books have also given warning of how things could end up if current beliefs or practices continue or are allowed to be taken to an extreme. I enjoy historical books, because much of that time functioned without all the Laws we have now. Also, it seems people wish to forget about the past and repeat failures. I heard someone arguing that we should return to a time that outlawed abortion. I am not for abortion but I do not believe the state has the right to tell someone if they can or cannot. The thing is I read some of what went on when abortions were illegal. Women were maimed, died. People took advantage of desperate people. What is the Law all about? Forcing someone to live by someone else's beliefs or world views. That other person is not going to help raise the new life. My point is not to talk about abortion but to mention many of us did not live in the time that abortion was not legal and it's easy to forget that one of the issues at the time was the illegal abortion operations. Even now there seems to be a need to forget adult/child sex or child pornography were not always illegal. Coming of age stories are also a favorite of mine, especially when mixed in foreign settings and/or mixed with a little adventure. If it's based on a true story, all the better.
Larson: What are you favorite news sources, commentators, etc. and why?
Oberon: I cannot say any news source is my favorite. I like to know what political leaning a publication has. I like to read both sides of a story. I was getting The Week for awhile. I favor its Liberal leaning but I'm more interested in the truth of things, not how it's spun.
Larson: How common do you think it is for people to want to engage in incest? How common do you think it is for them to actually do it?
Oberon: I do not think everyone or almost everyone has an incest thought, especially for all family members. I think it might be around 20-30% but that is really based off of no real data. I know of Susan, Donny, Mike, Pete, my nephew's friend from Taiwan, Mary (older woman), Roger, and a few people from the net that I have talked to about their encounters with family members. I think there are many who would have sex if it was not though of Taboo. But if you think about it if a man is attracted to his wife why would he not be attracted to a younger version of her. Why did a lot of people marry someone who reminded them of their parents. I remember my mom telling me her father whom did not grow up around hit on her during a visit when she was an adult. As a kid I would not have minded if my older brother or father had engaged me in sexual activities. In fact, I used to sleep in the same bed as my father when I was 10, 11. I remember enjoying being close to him like that.
Larson: What impact do you think incest has on children? What impact do you think the incest taboo has on them?
Oberon: I don't think the impact is all that different for incest than any other pedo intercourse for the most part. Most pedo-intercourse is with someone the youth knows. I'm sure there are some who want to say the trust was greater so the betrayal was greater. There are also those who might say because of the authority they felt more helpless. Those are people trying to a negative spin on incest. In the end, I feel it is society that does the greater harm with the negative spin. If society said "So what, get on with your life," incest would be no big deal. I believe many people do get on with their lives and for the most part we don't hear about the incest. When they are caught the biggest impact is taking Daddy or Mommy out of their life. Also when a Taboo is broken and the world does not come crashing to a halt I think it may bring into the question other limitations that make little sense. I think I babysat for a family that practiced incest. The kids seem to be very open-minded and well-adjusted.
Larson: How common do you think it is for people to want to engage in pedophilic relationships, and how common do you think it is to act on it?
Oberon: The wanting to try pedophilia I think is somewhat high especially when you include the young teenager. The actual is probably the same as hoomosexuality if you count both girls and boys. (It may be higher but not by much.)
Larson: What impact do you think pedophilia has on children? What impact do you think the pedophilia taboo has on them?
Oberon: The Rind report has shown that adult/child sex can be considered beneficial as well as harmful by the people who were minors at the time. Boys were pretty much 33% beneficial, 33% harmful, 33% no effect. The girls were more 20% beneficial, 30% (?) no effect, 50% harmful. I think the females were higher harmful because girls are viewed as victims so also take on the role of victim more. A lot of data shows that it is the societal taboo/backlash that is the true harm in non-forced Adult/child sex than the actual sexual encounter. In fact many data sources say that the youth is often doing better in school, happy during the relationship (high self-esteem). It's only after the relationship is discovered that the youth shows low self-esteem, poorer grades, etc. One could say for many cases the pedophilia is a positive impact. It's the guilt and backlash that the moral police wish to enforce that's the negative aspect.
Larson: How are adults affected by the incestuous pedophilic and non-incestuous pedophilic relationships they engage in? What emotions have you experienced from it and what have you learned from those relationships?
Oberon: Most of the people including myself have real bonds with the people (youth) they got involved with. Many of us wonder what our YF (young friends) are doing; if they are doing okay. If they regret what we did. I have a couple of poster-encounter chats that help me with the regret question. Jeremy I knew when he was 14 and 15. During his 15th year he discovered girls. Cool for him but he stopped spending time with me. I remember being at work thinking of him and having Puff the Magic Dragon come on the radio. Okay, strange radio station, but look who's writing it. I have always heard that Puff was the key word to make it a song about Marijuana as well as little Jackie paper. Well I think there was more to the song than smoking Marijuana because I was identifying with "A dragon is forever but not so little boy. There came a day when Jackie drapper no longer came to play along Cherry Lane. And Puff that old Dragon quietly slipped on into his cave." The words may not be exact. I realized how much Puff the Magic Dragon was also a boy lover's song. As an adult we stay adults no matter how much we may play but the object of our love goes away or changes. When he was sixteen, I got a call from him at 2 A.M. asking if I could come pick him up from a party that was not going so great. I did and I was glad he felt okay calling me. The next time I saw him he was nineteen. Had just bought a car and was showing it off to people. He stopped by my house hoping I still lived there. I'm ashamed to say I did not recognize him at first until he said "Don't you have a hug for me." We talked. He was still very much into girls but did not regret the time we spent together. Also, there was this boy I knew since he was about eight. At about nine, ten we got to know each other better. I knew him through my job at the time, a job I had to quit because I needed better pay. Three weeks later, I got a call from his mom asking if I would come and talk with him because he was distraught about not having me around anymore. He had a special Valentine's Day card to give me when I got over there. I set up with his mom to take him once in awhile to spend time with me. Kind of a big brother thing. They moved to Florida before he turned twelve. When he was 13, almost 14, he came back to visit his aunt. He ended up spending his whole visit at my house (or most of it). For 2½ weeks he slept in my bed with me. Even after pretty much two years he still wanted to spend time with me. There were boys I became very close to and did not cross any lines. That was okay because the emotional relationship was very important to me, as I have found with others who had YFs. What emotions do we go through? All of them: pain, joy, fear, love, anger, sorrow, worry, pride, elation, remorse, and ecstasy.
Larson: How does parent-child incest affect the parent-child relationship? How does sibling-sibling incest affect the sibling-sibling relationship?
Oberon: Because my mom was somewhat of a passive parent, I had more or less a friendship with her. She rarely pulled the parent card and to this day she is mom but I see her as a close friend I can count on. If our relationship was also sexual I don't see that changing. Because of what she's done for me and my emotional connection, I would not like it if I did something to make her disappointed in me or sad. That does not mean I do not live my life. Unfortunately, that also means I don't share all my thoughts and doings with her and for the most part is okay. This is the way most of my Custodial friendships have been. The emotional bond part of the relationship had been strong enough and an important enough part of our friendship that they did not wish to see sad or in trouble. In turn I'm not say they were able to manipulate situations but in the end I was "the boss" in the everyday stuff and they were the ones who decided if we had the special friendship and for the large part what was involved in our activities. I cannot help but think that when a parent does get involved in a physical relationship they give up a little power to tell the child what to do as a parent. The thing is most children fall into the role of a child with people telling them what to do most of the time. Also, if the child pulls the "I'll tell" card, most of the time faced with what will happen, most of them do not wish to see their partner get in trouble.
The other side is the Authoritative Parent who has a certain amount of psychological control over the child. This although the parent still cares for their child, they probably extend these feelings of I'm the boss" to any physical part of the relationship. In most cases the child-parent bond is probably still strong enough that the child would still not want to see their parent in trouble or out of their life. In even most authoritative Parents if the child says No, I believe the parent would stop. Yes, one could find examples of parents who don't but I think in most the parent would back off. Sadly it's the small percentage that do not stop that all parents who special relationships with their children get painted with.
As far as siblings, it seems to either bring them closer together like the older women I talked to or a women's interview in the Hite Report who describes interactions with her older brother and stating she is very close to him. Or is caused resentment. The younger sibling blaming his/her shortcomings on the older sibling. I've noticed this resentment only seems to occur when things are going poorly for the younger sibling. There may be less of the emotional connection between siblings in relation to the sexual acts. It is more a safe person to experiment with or just horniness.
Larson: What do you think of the idea of reproducing with one's kids (i.e. daughter having her father's child or mother having her son's child)? What about siblings having kids with each other?
Oberon: The only problem with children of incestuous relationships is if they are born with defects that affect other people. Of course, if too many people are being born with defects from incestuous couplings it could hurt the gene pool of human begins. Also, since the defects are a cause of two recessive genes matching up even if two different defective offspring from different parents mated the recessive gene would be coupled with other genes and the physical defect would be passed on but not appear or hinder society. (A note the recessive gene would be passed on anyway. Also, a non family member could also have the gene and the defect would come about anyway. It's just faster and easier in its own gene pool.) Other than the defective gene problem which is not as likely during the first three generations of incest I see no problems or issues with same family descendants. In fact there could be beneficial recessive genes that might link up fast. Something to think about.
Larson: What are your views on suicide? Is it ethical when one isn't going to die anytime soon and isn't in physical pain, but is just tired of life?
Oberon: I have no problem with people who are suffering and there is no reasonable cure or help for them committing suicide. In general I do not believe society has the right to tell someone if they can, can't, or must commit suicide. The must is not a problem yet and if the state wants them to die it will just kill them. Is it wrong to kill one's self if he/she is in emotional pain or "tired of living"? Life is too short as it is if are 80 or 90 maybe "tired of living" might be an excuse but not at 30 or 40 (or younger). Emotional pain goes away or there are things one can do to push it away. Many people welcome the emotional pain. They wallow in it sometimes. For me it's like abortion. I don't like it but I or the state have no place telling somebody what they should do that does not directly harm someone else. (When I say "telling someone what they should do," I mean force them or make a law which is the same as forcing).
More on a personal note, we all go through periods of ups and downs in our life. It's a little different for everyone. The down periods can seem pretty rough sometimes but they are worth getting through so we can experience the up times. These last eight years have been a down period of my life but it will be over in another 4+ years. After I get through these next five years or so, I'll again have some good times. But during these last eight years (and probably during the next 4½) I have met some interesting people, I have learned things that have firmed up some of my beliefs. (and had to rethink a couple.) I would rather not be in prison but I would have not met guys like you or my mail friend Jim along with a handful of other guys. I still want to do some things and I will not be able to do them if I'm not around. It's a bummer to be involved with the law and all its unjust doings at my age and especially at yours. In small doses I have had freedom, real type freedom, not the fake stuff the U.S. dangles in front of us. You have a good mind and the balls to use it. Look at what you're doing now, gathering facts from real people. Self-reporting is the best data. The only other thing I would urge you to do is put a list of this or that questions together (50 yes or no, blue or green type questions). This will create more of a baseline for percentages. Try it out on your website. Just a thought. Back to the personal note. You're smart, good looking, most of the time upbeat, young, and you have people willing to support you. You're not gay I know but there would be any number of guys on this yard who would like to be with you and I'm sure you will find someone (female) on the outside who would like to be with you.
"Tired of living?" Shoot you have not lived yet, would be my response. Give yourself the chance to live, then live life to its fullest. I have not even done that yet, although I've gotten close a couple of times.
Larson: Do you view any procedural aspects of how your investigation and court proceedings were handled as having been unfair? How?
Oberon: Sure there was procedural unfairness. The interviews with the youths. The judge not ever signing my search warrant. A state cop arresting on a federal warrant whe it is clear marked "Federal Officer only." There are a handful of those but I can do nothing about them and I need to focus on the now what. I don't wish to waste energy on the past unfairness of stuff I cannot change. Oh, I keep my eye out for changes in the law that states something was unfair and if I can I will bring up something that was done wrong if I can change it. I would rather try to change the unfairness of the law that put me here. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen until more people are informed and start questioning the Law also.
Larson: What are your favorite board games and why?
Oberon: Backgammon, fox and hound. I used to enjoy chess more at one time. In the end it's not a board game but who I'm playing with. Largely I enjoy card games. Cribbage, 21, rummy. Do not like hearts or spades. Guys get too serious. Like I said it's more of the company while playing I want to have fun more than win. (oh I enjoy winning but it's not why I play). Other than that I enjoy role playing games. Pre-4.0 D&D is my favorite.
Larson: What non-sexual activities did you used to do with your underage lovers?
Oberon: My YFs would be some o the company I would enjoy doing board games/card games with. We would go to the beach, public pool, hike, movie theater, gone to plays a couple of times and museum, hang out and watch T.V., play video games, hang out as the mall. Basketball, throw a baseball or kick a soccer ball around. Go on a bike ride and just kick it around town, skate park. I've taken them to local and state fairs as well as SCA events (a historical reenactment group). Even taken a couple to a nude beach but I said beach up above. I lived my life and invited them to be a part of it. One even would go on my delivery route (job) with me.
Larson: Were you ever seduced by an underage person?
Oberon: I'm not sure I would call it seduced with the exception of one girl who might have tried. I was not interested and it was easy to say "Sorry inappropriate, you're a nice girl and all." As far as boys go I was pretty much open to them and I had many make the first move but I gave many signs that I was open to having a more intimate relationship. Seduction infers that the one doing the seducing has to entice or tempt the other person. I will say that one boy I said no to two times more because I was not sure about him being able to keep the relationship between us which he was not. He let two (maybe more) of his friends know because he wanted them to join us. I had young boys surprise me by starting any physical playing around. I have had boys initiate any action but I would not really call it seducing.
Larson: What do you think are the most common motives for the older partners and the younger partners to engage in pedophilic relationships? What about incestuous pedophilia?
Oberon: As a youth, my sexual relationship at first was about trying something new out, curiosity. Then it was going the new thing. It was like a novelty. The fact I was doing something "naughty" probably played a part as well as it felt good as I got into it. A big part was being horny and nothing else felt quite like having sex. there are other reasons youth get involved with adults from wanting to please them, wanting the attention, wanting things the adult can do or get for them. It's an extension of their feelings. Most of the boys I knew may have started for different reasons but continued because of the emotional bond and/or there was nothing that felt quite like it. They wre horny. Like I said, the feeling of doing something they were not supposed to or doing something that was reserved for grownups/older people thus feeling older may have played a part. There is also those who feel they had to but even a number of them crave the feeling sex brings after a while. (not all of course but there have been some poeple who have expressed this).
For adults (or as an adult) I know the psycho office likes to say the adult has a need to control. I disagree with that conclusion. Most of the adults I have talked to online and prison have a genuine feeling of concern, caring and love for their YFs. Many guys in prison have verbalized they hope their YH is okay and not all messed up from pre- and post-arrest activities. I believe many of the reasons adults have sex with youths is the same reason teenagers and adults have sex with their peers. It is just a different attraction factor involved. It is the same attraction factor that causes a guy to feel more attracted to another guy if he is gay. Or some guys are more attracted to blondes, long legs, or big breasts. There is some reason a person is attracted to someone. In some it may be more psychological. For example a guy who likes big breast I'm sure there is a group of psychologists out there trying to convince people man who is attracted to big breasts is because he was breast fed too long as a child or not breast fed at all as a child. And for the most part trying to apply the same reasoning to pedophilia is the same bullshit. I believe the main reason people have sex is we are sexual beings. We are horny and lustful and we act upon those things we are attracted to. I like the youthful form of a young man (boy). It is like a rose, or a colorful sunset. I find it very pleasing to the eye. You couple that with an emotional bond and to create something very desirable to me and I believe most other adults who engage in adult/child sex it is the same way. In truth, one way to give up control of a youth is to touch them in an inappropriate way in our society.
There are many different aspects of a relationship and especially a sexual one. Let's take a look at S&M relationships. From the outside it looks like the "S" is the is the dominant one, the one in control. That is largely a misconception. In most S&M relationships the "M" controls a lot of where the relationship goes. In my own sexual relationship with Ralph when I was a youth at any time I could stop it and even get him in trouble although it would have been a little embarrassing for me. I still could have said no more and not go over. The point was I did for almost two years and I gave up a certain amount of control. In many adult relationships one partner (normally females in hetero couplings) give up a certain amount of control in the relationship. There are relatoinships where the control is taken it gets real easy for those who disagree with "a type of relationship" to paint all those relationships with that same extreme paint brush because there are similar qualities.
Larson: Rather than ask a question, I just want to take this opportunity to say that you are one of my favorite people on this compound. I found you insightful, intelligent, thoughtful, interesting, good-natured, friendly, well-spoken, and I admire your willingness to better the world by sharing your essays, thoughts, etc. I am happy to have met you, and I hope I can be of assistance in sharing your knowledge and wisdom with a larger audience, so that freedom and justice can be furthered by a better-informed public. Thank you again for your help and participation with this project. I enjoy your company and your contributions.
Oberon: I want to thank you for the kind words. I meant the things I said about you seven questions ago. There is a piece of me that wishes you were gay or at least bi but I totally respect that you seem to voice you are not even though you are open minded which I also respect very much. I hope you are not embarrassed by what you said in this question and know much of it is felt by me going back the other way. I hope very much that we can stay in contact after you leave prison and I hope I will be able to turn to you as a resource of information as I come across items and ideas. I am looking to have someone post some of my stories (some fiction, some non) on Nifty.org. But that will be down the road if you choose to do it for me. There is more I would not mind sharing but I am more sensitive in who knows about it as even Oberon by others like your cellies I do not totally trust. (or I believe he is one of your cellies.) I may have said more in #13 [the question about evolution of his sexuality] than I should about personal encounters and I made reference to my state case a couple of times that I would not want officials to know about for a reason to civilly commit. There is no conviction. I don't need some inmate running to the Psychology office and later in front of a Judge. You wish to have honesty but in our not-so-free country (or a country with the facade of freedom) one must be careful what they do with honesty. there may be more but I need to talk to you first.
Larson: What are your views on incest?
Oberon: The Taboo of incest is not an oxymoron as someone suggested. In our culture one might say the use of taboo is duplicate as the idea of incest is taboo so the use of the word incest is synonymous with taboo or inferred. This I believe is also wrong for there are cultures and subcultures that practice incest. The sexual relationship of those with close family tie is incest and something Taboo is generally a social restriction. This social restriction is due mainly to the fact we believe bad genetic abnormalities will happen if people have children from incestuous relationships. Although this is true, this concern is outdated and too broadly applied. It is a taboo formed in a simpler time by or for the masses. This the taboo was made for the lowest common denominator.
In a simpler time with many of the populous ignorant it was easier to just say "laying with your family is wrong." Let's also remember that the church, especially the Catholic Church, saw sex as a necessary evil to create children. Well maybe not totally evil but the church had expressed that sex is for procreating. As our society has become more sexual or sexually accepting the church has backed off that message little although it still stresses sex is only appropriate in the confines of marriage. The point I'm trying to make is part of our views as a society about sex have been influenced by religion. A view that sex should only be for the procreation of children and so if that sex is likely to produce ill fit children it should be avoided. The other area that at least the Catholic Church is against is the use of birth control which has improved since earlier times.
The improvement in birth control is the biggest reason as a society the taboo of incest should be looked at rationally. The damage to society for having children that are ill fit can be a drain on resources and the community gene pool. Now that birth control can prevent most unwanted births there is no need to fear the possible outcome of close family members having sex.
At this point I would like to mention a science report I read about the possible abnormalities of incestuous relationships. I was very surprised to see the first generation percentage of a couple producing a baby with negative effects was less than one percent. In fact it was at or after the third generation of incestuous relations that it got around 10% and then increases after that almost exponentially. I remember think up to the third generation the odds of having a baby with no abnormalities was really quite good.
This an incestuous couple having a child in the first, second, or third generation was really unlikely to produce a child that would harm society. Also, birth control could further reduce the chance that their incestuous relationship could cause community harm. If there is no harm there should not be a restriction or legal issues. That is why applying incest laws and societal restraints to non-child-producing incest relationships makes no sense.
There are three areas that rationally should not be affected by incest laws or taboos: same sex relationships; relationships with a prepubescent; or where someone is naturally or medically barren. There is no chance of producing a child with a relationship of the same sex. Nor is there a chance of producing a child with someone who has not reached puberty. The only problem is many reach puberty without the sure signs of secondary characteristics. Mary at 10 could move from prepubescent to pubescent in one month and no one realize it until poor Mary got sick in the morning and started putting on a little weight because of having her first period she got pregnant. But still many eight-year-old girls are not going to be making babies and that goes for eight-year-old boys although there might be those one-percenters. The last one is if Daddy can show he had a vasectomy no amount of screwing his thirteen-year-old daughter is going to produce a child, at least by him.
In reality, we don't hear too much of Bob who might be 28 banging his sister, let's say 24, or his mom who may be a Milf (or maybe a Gilf by then). For the most part they know they will both be in trouble so they keep their activity to themselves. Don't fool yourself. People are having incest; it's just not talked about openly. The type of incest that does get talked about is what one might call pedoincest. Incest involving minors and for the sake of clarity minors under sixteen.
Pedoincest is probably better known and talked about because there is an easy target to label victim and thus wronger. Sister, Brother incest of close ages is not bantered about so much and there is always this attitude of nudge nudge wink wink when talking about "Kissing Cousins" which by most legal understanding is still incest but seem to be acceptable when involved in the beginning of sexual exploration (up, up and away Capt. Wennie). Incest involving a parent, uncle, aunt, or grandparent is much better known. There is also where there is a big difference in ages of siblings or cousins especially if the younger is under thirteen.
In a perfect world a father, mother, or any family member could go up to another and say "Oh" so-and-so "I love you" and allow the expression of love to extend into the physical, sexual realm. Bringing someone to orgasm would be no different than giving them a hug or a quick kiss, with the exception that bringing someone to orgasm might take a little longer. Although there is normally a great amount of affection or love between let's say a father and daughter, having a high level of love is not needed to okay an incestuous relationship. In the perfect world there can be other reasons and needs being met to justify a father-daughter relationship at any stage.
For example, in some cultures it is not unheard of or was (as the U.S. infects more and more cultures) unheard of for a parent to bring a young, fidgety child to orgasm through oral or masturbatory means so that it would settle down to sleep. I have heard the justification for this act as being okay because it was being done without sexual intent. Unfortunately this act treads too close to incest and pedophilia to make it a mainstream discussion. The first time I learned of this activity was in a human sexuality class in college back in 1990. Since then I have run into a couple of mentions to this bedtime activity but that has been it — just mentions. I would have liked to know what is considered young — under 8, 5, 3? Is it that rare occasion or more of a nightly thing like some parents reading a bedtime story. In college it said whenever a child was fidgety although it suggested more of a nap or nighttime activity. The child still experienced the same sexual pleasure regardless of intent. Did the child look forward or even ask for the activity to be done? And did the parents look at it as a chore or a way to bond? Did parents receive a certain amount of pleasure from giving pleasure to their child or more. Most of my knowledge on this subject has come from Western culture filters. I would love to talk or read from the people who practiced said activities.
In a perfect world, one could practice whatever lifestyle they chose especially in their own home. There would not be a need to govern people's personal lives. One of the tenets of Roman Law, which much of the Western culture is based on, no law could affect what man wished to do within his own property. This idea went as far as he could kill his own wife and children if they caused him dishonor. I do not support this extreme view nor do most of our society but there are those who will take actions that are extreme and truly harm others behind closed doors. Sadly enough we do not live in a perfect world so we have laws that government people's private lives that go beyond protection from direct harm.
I have a friend from Taiwan. When he was a boy his father would masturbate him in the shower. He did not think too much of it until he came to America. His father never did any other sexual activities and only in the shower. This went on until he was about twelve or thirteen. I asked him if he ever asked his father not to do it. This friend is not gay and seems a little uncomfortable admitting he would orgasm when his father did this. His reason why he never told his father to stop was he was his father's son and basically his father had a right to do it. This took me back when he said this. I realized I was reacting with my Western upbringing. He was his father's son, under his father's roof, and under his father's protection (care). What his father did was not harmful. In fact my friend may have found pleasure in the shower activity. Even after he was older he did not think what his father did was wrong. What they did was private but not wrong. It was not until he came to the U.S. that he played with the idea of what they did was wrong. He has a good relationship with his father to this day as far as I know. He did when we talked.
What harm did this father cause? I would say none. Now a bleeding heart busybody who seeks to have everyone conform to their way of thinking would say something different. It does not matter if it's a liberalized feminazi or a Conservative Bible thumper. We'll call this person Sue because it's normally a woman or a vaginized man (boy named Sue). Well, Sue will say "the father betrayed his son's trust." Really the son's only trust or expectation is the father will not harm him. It's Sue's expectation that the father will conform to his/her way of thinking. So it's Sue who feels betrayed and tries to convince the son he should have the same expectation as Sue often after Sue and his/her friend have separated the son from the father. As we live in a society that encourages people to lay blame at the feet of other people for their shortcomings. If you can't keep a job because of whatever reason it's because dad or mom touched you or didn't do something right. I agree with the Eagles "Your momma's too fat. Your daddy's too thin. Get over it."
I had a conversation with a woman in her early eighties. I was taken back and impressed with her honesty, maturity, and rationality. We were talking about how our society encourages people to be victims. She agreed. She also went on to say her generation they just dealt with what every issue and went on. She then shared a little of her past. She came from a family of six children and was one of the youngest and the only girl. When she was eight her sixteen-year-old brother and a couple of friends had sex with her. She said it may not have been right but it was just something that happened. It didn't scare her or make her a victim. She went on to raise three boys and was married over 60 years to the same man. She never let what happened to her as a girl affect the way she lived her life. Not only that, she and her brother were friends right up to the day he died. She passed away about four years after this conversation, about six months after her husband who died of cancer. It's conversations and stories like hers that have formed or edified my beliefs on these subjects.
This brings us to the most controversial topic with pedoincest, that of consent. With probably most pedo encounters it's really a situation of a lack of non-consent. When the father in Taiwan started masturbating his son, he did not ask if it was okay. If his son put up a fuss, he may not have continued doing it. Or the woman, her brother didn't ask for permission but just acted, and she did not say no. So, they continued. Often I'm sure is the case that the older takes the hands of the younger family member and leads them towards the sexual activity. The other occurs I'm sure also. A non-incest relationship I know of started with the boy making the advancement although the first time they had intercourse it was the older partner leading the way. In my own encounter with someone old when I was a youth it was natural to give up a certain amount of control to the person older, wiser, and more experienced. It was roles we were the most familiar with. As a youth there are people telling you what to do all the time. Ultimately I had the power to say no, which I never did.
One of the major arguments against pedo-incest is the control older family members especially parents have over the minors. The child might not feel they can say no, or it may not matter if they do. As for the first, Children say no all the time. I have always said as a society we should empower children the ability to say no, not to say no for them. As for the second, that would be rape and there are laws against rape regardless of youth involvement. This I think is the best compromise. Those who wish to raise their children to be afraid or ashamed of sex and their body can but let those families who wish to raise their families believing sex is okay and enjoyable as well as not to be ashamed of their body. They should be able to express those values. As the laws stand now the first group forces the second group to live by their "family values." If we lived in a freer country I bet the children of group one would be visiting the families of group two much more than the other way around.
Like I said above it is the best Compromise. Before I go into what I believe is being compromised let me give you a scenario. The Flanders are going to church but eight-year-old Billy says he does not want to go. He even raises a fit and calls his father a Mother Christian in his most derogatory voice. Well I doubt Mr. Flanders is going to say "You're right, you don't have to go to church. I'm sorry; I never asked if you wanted to go. I'll just leave you at home." In the most liberal of Christian families Mr. or Mrs. might stay home or the whole family once. If the Flanders is a moderate Christian family, they may arrange for Billy to be someplace on Sundays and whatever other days they go to church all the while trying to persuade Billy to join them in their church outings, even making a point to give his brother special things because he does go to church with them. Now the no-so-Moderate Christian family is going to tell Billy "The hell what, you get your ass in the car now or I'm going to beat hell out of it." Okay, a little extreme, but not unheard of nor is the scenario of Mr. Flanders just letting his hand or belt do all the talking for him. For the most part we as a society accept the Flanders family lifestyle. Not all of the people of society may agree with the more extreme action of spanking the boy for not wanting to go to church but society will in general not interfere. The mindset of not interfering with the forcing of the Christian lifestyle worldview on helpless children does not apply to other world views even though the owners of those world views are parents also.
Ideally there would be no need for the idea of consent because the love the family members had for each other could be also expressed by physical sexual actions. A step down from that would be like my friend from Taiwan. The child accepts the older family member's position but older family member would never do anything the minor could not handle and would avoid actual harmful acts. The problem is there are people who would be extreme and may actually do things that harm or damage. That is why I feel the compromise is the best empower the youth to say no and if the other person does not stop them allow the normal rape laws to be the consequence. I am also for sex to be so common the youth believes sex to be the natural way of life and the absence of sex to be wrong.